Talk:Price Energy Accurately/@comment-252647-20130126203323

Comment thread from 2012 brought over from former wiki site:

Include treating environmental damage in the full cost of production and use of the energy. Example for coal, remediate acid mine drainage and the damage from mountain top removal at the source. Sequester carbon, treat air pollution and mercury from the burning of coal. April 19, 2012 by RVP

'' True. That's what really should be in it. Could debate about how far we can go practically, but can do that for any of these. Point is to get people going. I've adjusted text to accomodate (and reduce text). April 25, 2012 by Jatlee ''

I'm curious why energy is accounted for in this way, but not other limited resources (e.g., we are arriving at peak lithium and peak water). These could be included under a "depletion" card such as one of your next two, but that raises the issue of why and how energy is considered separately from all other limited and/or potentially polluting substances. I'm wondering if energy is a subset of another such card, but perhaps the most important, broadly impactful subset, thereby deserving its own card. If so, this could usefully be made explicit to avoid confusion. April 5, 2012 by Tomatlee

''Yes, the other cards are broader ones addressing same issues. A few reasons I wanted to single out energy:  ''

''1. Energy is a relatively simpler concept to grasp, and most likely one to be an early focus of this kind of adjustment. There is greater awareness of energy limitations, so it makes a good entry point. ''

''2. Energy has the cleanest logic in terms of the flaw in standard economic thinking that everything is substitutible. One can always argue we can set up desalinization plants everywhere for water, and ship across the country, can refine far less concentrated ore, can even create tiny robots to do the polinization bees do for free. But without a concentrated energy source, you can't get going on any of the rest of it. ''

''3. It's really easy for designers and others to think through what's different if energy prices go up A LOT. Not so easy to think through the consequences of price rises in other resources, so again a good entry point. April 25, 2012 by Jatlee''